Comment on TOS Spotlight: Harassment

  1. ScourgeofBeast Sun 15 Jun 2025 02:02PM UTC

    The problem with putting DNI sign on ao3 tags is that it contribute to toxicity and harassment problem, we don't need such dni nonsense on ao3

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    1. Giwiidabimin Sun 15 Jun 2025 04:38PM UTC

      While I would agree, AO3 has clarified these DNI statements do not count as harassment in their reply to me

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    2. Rune_Vanyarin Sun 15 Jun 2025 08:55PM UTC

      I agree that they create a hostile environment, and they're inherently an attempt to intimidate or shame a large group or people out of a space, and I'd consider that at least mild harassment.

      That said, I can see why AO3 isn't going to consider a simple "proship DNI" to be harassment. It's a completely meaningless and ineffective statement, and you and I and AO3 all know it comes from a harassing intent, but it isn't in and of itself harassment. "DNI proship freaks" or "DNI proshippers, no one likes you", on the other hand, is clearly an insult and that they *do* count as harassment.
      And I haven't seen a single DNI-haver on AO3 that manages to hold back the namecalling for more than two minutes.

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    3. Rambert Sun 15 Jun 2025 09:12PM UTC

      Viren shudders and says ugh from putting the bug on his ear to speak to Aaravos

      I should be able to tell transphobes to stay away from my works without being reported for it. This is absolute nonsense

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      1. AO3_Policy_and_Abuse (Official) Sun 15 Jun 2025 11:53PM UTC

        a stylized AO3 cat

        As explained in the post above, users are allowed to ask that others not interact with them; however, users are not allowed to insult, threaten, or attack others when making a DNI request.

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        1. Rambert Mon 16 Jun 2025 03:52AM UTC

          Viren shudders and says ugh from putting the bug on his ear to speak to Aaravos

          So you're admitting that you're tone policing author notes... and yet you won't incorporate more warnings or any protections against racism into the ToS... this website is cooked 🍳

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          1. Brambleshadow_of_WindClan Wed 18 Jun 2025 11:07PM UTC

            Stating "Transphobes DNI" in the tags or author's notes and leaving it at simply that, in and of itself, is not harassment and such a DNI is allowed on AO3.

            Pairing that DNI statement with violent statements (even over-the-top cartoonish violence) or personal attacks, however, in either the tags or the author's notes will then be viewed or taken as harassment, as that is directed toward real people.

            AO3 in and of itself does not "tone police", as you've phrased it. They do not step in unless the tags/notes/users in question are reported to the PAC team for violating the TOS.

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          2. sockswithheels Thu 19 Jun 2025 05:07AM UTC

            I agree with you, this is exactly what I was going to ask in the comments–but I think the other people in the thread did bring up a valid point, sometimes you just gotta follow the site's rules, no matter how odd they seem to you (and I, for that matter). It's super frustrating when other people don't follow these rules in the comment section, so I disagree with what one other user said about not having to put it in the tags; it's not inherently a "threat" or even insulting–and it shouldn't be. If you're prejudiced against something, you probably have very strong feelings about it, so why would you care that a random user's tag tells you not to engage negatively. Like I would think that's normal but okay... anyway, it stinks, but I'd like to believe AO3 mods have everyone's best interest at heart.

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            1. Kereudio Thu 19 Jun 2025 08:01PM UTC

              I think you and the person you replied to are misunderstanding the post and PAC's response? DNIs are absolutely allowed as long as they aren't paired with an insult, attack, or death threat. I think DNIs for bigots are useless because if a bigot is setting out to harass me for being trans why the hell would they listen to or care about a DNI, but "transphobes DNI" or even "DNI transphobes i hate you" is a-okay on AO3. It's shit like "DNI transphobes i hope you die" or "DNI transphobes i think you're disgusting monsters" that ISN'T okay.

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        3. Rambert Mon 16 Jun 2025 09:52PM UTC

          Viren shudders and says ugh from putting the bug on his ear to speak to Aaravos

          "Insult" does not belong on this list. Insults are not even remotely on the same level as threats and attacks, and the word "insult" can be interpreted far too loosely.

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      3. Rune_Vanyarin Mon 16 Jun 2025 12:42AM UTC

        You don't need to tell transphobes to stay away from your work, the TOS already tells them they can't go be transphobic in your comments. If someone is going to ignore the site's rules and go be a transphobic asshole in your comments, your having or not having a DNI won't change their mind.

        And if they do that, just report them and AO3 will deal with it (which means banning them if they're dedicated or particularily virulent). AO3 exists to create a safe space for fanworks and fans, it's not on us to put up keep out signs and hope the the assholes are feeling polite today, AO3 has a whole team of moderators with banhammers who volunteered just to keep them out.

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        1. Rambert Mon 16 Jun 2025 03:49AM UTC

          Viren shudders and says ugh from putting the bug on his ear to speak to Aaravos

          Considering this archive supposedly prides itself on "protected fan works" (to the point they use it as justification that the ToS cannot be reformed to include precautions against racism and child porn), it is absolutely absurd that authors can be accused of harassment simply for something they put in the end notes or tags. Whatever happened to "don't like don't read"??? If someone gets offended by me saying DNI, guess what, that's still less offensive than someone who doesn't have filters on having to see all the gross fics that are allowed by the ToS despite being morally problematic. Yet the archive only seems to care about one of these issues... the enforcement is growing more targeted against people saying things like "i don't like incest" meanwhile there's full on racism and they refuse to do anything about that. This site is corrupt.

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          1. L_O_V_E Wed 18 Jun 2025 07:22PM UTC

            The thing is you could say (in the tags or summary) something along the lines of:"this work includes Trans characters, if you do not like this I advise not to read" It's not rude.

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        3. Rambert Mon 16 Jun 2025 09:50PM UTC

          Viren shudders and says ugh from putting the bug on his ear to speak to Aaravos

          (This is my second attempt at replying to you, I believe my first attempt got rejected by the moderators)

          I am aware that transphobic harassment already violates the ToS, and appreciate that protections are in place so that authors may report bigoted or other targeted harassment on their works. This makes sense. I just take umbrage with the tone policing of author notes and tags that are not literal slurs or hate speech, especially when it is quite clear they are asking for certain people to leave them alone. It shouldn't matter whether or not the harassment consequences are already built in, we should be allowed to emphasize it without being at risk of our works being reported. "Insult" is far too vague and mild a word that can be interpreted in any manner of alarming ways.

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